Years from now, when we look back on the history of pop-political interviewing, we may find it quaint that Sacha Baron Cohen had to disguise himself as Borat and Ali G in order to get public figures into uncomfortable situations.
Turns out all you have to do is ask.
At least that was the case with the New York mayoral candidate and media omnipresence Andrew Yang, who accepted a dangerous offer from the comedian Ziwe to appear on her self-named Showtime program.
The invitation (announced in a tweet that appeared to include a still from an already completed interview) would give many political handlers heartburn. The three-week old “Ziwe,” based on the comedian’s online show “Baited With Ziwe,” is a crucible of cringe.
But cringe, in many ways, has been what the Yang campaign runs on.
In her interviews, Ziwe uses the persona of an extremely online interviewer fond of influencer-speak (everything, and everyone, is “iconic”) to set up productively uncomfortable questions about politics and culture. Her signature is to take a softball-question template (“Your favorite ____”), soak it in acid and surround it with mousetraps. She asked the author and celebrated New York grouch Fran Lebowitz, “What bothers you more: slow walkers or racism?”
Sunday’s interview delivered. After a cheerful introduction by teleconference — Mr. Yang was, of course, an “icon” — Ziwe asked the candidate to name his four favorite billionaires. (His answer included Michael Bloomberg, whom the Democratic base considers less than iconic; Oprah; Michael Jordan; and a tie for fourth between the possible/potential billionaires LeBron James and the Rock.) His favorite subway stop? The punitive Times Square station.
“What are your favorite racial stereotypes?” elicited a nervous laugh. “What can I say about Asians?” Mr. Yang said, one of the “MATH” caps made famous in his presidential campaign visible behind him. And when Mr. Yang said he was a fan of hip-hop, Ziwe asked his favorite Jay-Z song, a loaded question about a New York rapper for a candidate whose local cred has repeatedly been challenged.
There was a pause. Finally, Mr. Yang offered up “Numb/Encore” (with the rock band Linkin Park), as well as the Kanye West “Watch the Throne” collaboration that he referred to as “Word in Paris.”
And yet! There was reason for critics to think Mr. Yang had embarrassed himself and for supporters to think he had helped himself. You could watch the interview and see a naïve glad-hander in over his head or a gutsy good sport. And you might be right either way.
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This has been the pattern of the Yang campaign in the media, an endless cycle of gaffes and self-owns that have left him at or near the top of the polls despite a paucity of government experience and electoral wins. The Ziwe interview may not have even been the most mortifying Yang clip of the week, which also saw a video of him tossing brick after brick on a city basketball court.
He tweeted his love of New York “bodegas” with a video of what looked like a capacious supermarket. He reminisced about waiting “in,” not “on,” line at a “NY restaurant,” Shake Shack. More seriously, he offended a gay Democratic club while seeking an endorsement and walked back an initial response to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that didn’t acknowledge violence against Palestinians.
After every incident, he may or may not have gotten more formidable. But after every incident, he got more famous. Fame got him to the front of the pack and — despite repeated pronouncements that the latest immolation would end him — fame has kept him there.
No American needs to be told that celebrity is a path to politics. We’ve had Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump; we may have Caitlyn Jenner and Matthew McConaughey. But Mr. Yang represents another advance in the celebritization of politics: He became a celebrity by running for president.
